Response to Muertos

Hi Muertos

I was led to your blog about the Desteni I Process by a friend of mine who read it and became concerned about me. I am a Desteni I Process ‘agent’, and after reading your blog, my friend thought I was in a pyramid-scheme and a cult. Upon reading your blog for myself, I found many discrepancies which I will list below. The fact that your blog contained so much misinformation is either due to a lack of proper research, or an attempt to persuade or influence your readers to believe what you want them to believe (instead of presenting them with actual facts). So you are either spreading misinformation through irresponsible research, or you are trying to deliberately deceive your readers (which you are accusing Desteni of doing). Either way, your blog is misleading.

At Desteni we publish everything we do in our real names so that we can stand by everything we say. As you stated several times, all the information is clearly indicated on the webpage, including the pricing and the structure of the desteni I process. There is nothing hidden and no secrets. This is an act of transparency, and not “a group that seems to have few scruples about the techniques it uses to attract new members”. There’s nothing to have “scruples” about; it’s all out in the open, if you’re not interested, then don’t apply.

The growing group that supports themselves through Desteni have this in common: we want to support people to empower themselves to become future leaders who are willing to take on a corrupt economic and political system, so that we can replace it with one that doesn’t value money over life and the environment. Why? Because it makes sense: We are destroying the planet and people are starving.

The most effective way to change this system is through legal political democratic means, and this is a very expensive endeavor, especially if it is self-financed. We have to be self-financed because if we are financed by corporations like many political leaders are, then we will be owned, as many political leaders are. And besides, no corporation will finance a group that has equality as their political platform, because that would mean the end of their profit. We are not interested in profit; we are interested in financing political change. Public policy is our tool, not revolution, activism or demonstration. But first we need a large group of self-honest people who are ready to put their self-interest aside and take on a world that is in very serious trouble. DIP is leadership training that teaches you how to do this, and that also offers the financial support necessary to exist in this world and to finance the much needed change.

The Desteni I Process gives you the tools to be and become a leader that is capable of standing for change. If you chose to do the process and to instead use it for self-interest, then that is your choice. However, that is unlikely, because in doing this process, you learn how to see through the veil of self-interest to the bigger picture, the one where suffering and abuse is something that needs to be immediately stopped and the one where change is long overdue.

Following is a list of discrepancies and their corrections:

About the Desteni I Process, (1) you said, “the model functions on the basis of infinite expansion”

In actual fact, the model is based upon a limit of 10 recruits per agent. In this way, everyone has an equal opportunity and there is no hierarchy.

The entire structure is based on equality so that everyone has the opportunity to learn the tools, to support themselves while doing so, and to support others through the ‘sponsorship program’ which you forgot to mention. I personally am being sponsored, so I am not paying for my Desteni I Process (DIP) courses. So, instead of making maximum profit, the structure is set up to allow as many people as possible to have access to learning the Desteni tools (self-forgiveness, self-honesty, self-corrective application).

In fact, on the main page at Desteni.org, there is enough free material to apply in one’s life for at least three years. It is suggested to learn and understand the material for free at the Desteni.org website before you make a decision to start the ‘I Process’. Nobody should influence you in your decision; it should be a self-willed action that is decided only after you have proved to yourself that the tools work. Nobody can do this for you.

(2) You said “Not knowing the laws of South Africa, where I assume the Desteni I Process business is based, for purposes of this blog I assume that it is not technically illegal”

The Desteni I Process is an international endeavor; I am Canadian and participate from my home. DIP follows international business laws and is completely legal. Yes, there are many abusive pyramid schemes out there, but DIP is not one of them.

(3) You say “Desteni combines their MLM scheme with some of the more esoteric aspects of their cult, thus playing on a curious mixture of their followers’ spiritual, personal and financial motivations.”

Here you call Desteni a cult with followers, but it is not. First of all, there is no leader, there is also no belief system and no followers. It is stated very clearly within the Desteni material that being a follower is not acceptable because it is not a self-willed action- it is rather being influenced by another, be it a ‘leader’ or not. Desteni is about becoming a group of self-willed leaders who work together cooperatively to bring about change. It is about proving to yourself through the specific writing tools, that you can trust yourself, that you can live the words you speak (i.e.: if you say you’re going to do something, you actually do it). If we are able to be influenced by a leader, then we will have no personal power, but will rather be like sheep. We have had enough of being treated like cattle, and are ready to stand up by our own will and take a stand against the way things currently are.

(4) You say “You’ll learn how to talk, think and act like a Destonian, and presumably at some point you’ll be asked to shave your head and you’ll be exposed to Desteni cult leader Bernard Poolman’s bizarre rants about reptilian conspiracies.”

What you will actually learn is how to be yourself, and not be influenced by others or even by yourself (for example, I learned why I get nervous when I have to speak in front of large groups, and how to instead remain stable and certain within myself, in this way, I stopped influencing myself).

The face world/face off campaign that involved head shaving is over, but I highly recommend it as a personal challenge to face the world with no hair. It was a really cool experience and I do recommend it to everyone, but at no point will you be asked to do it within DIP.

From a common-sense perspective, we use all these products for our hair, millions of us, to make it look beautiful or to make it grow etc… but these products are super polluting and are destroying our drinking water. It takes really intensive processes to get chemicals out of the water, yet we continue to use more and more products. It doesn’t make any sense to sacrifice our drinking water for beauty.

When we shaved our heads it was a statement of putting personal ego and self-interest aside for the sake of a natural resource that is invaluable and cannot be replaced. Besides, why do we feel we need to look beautiful to be accepted? Why do we not accept ourselves as we are? These are the types of questions that you will be able to face and answer within DIP.

Some Destonians continue to shave, others don’t. I grew my hair back and now use biodegradable shampoos/soaps and cleaning products. I wash less and take shorter showers because the Desteni material made me open my eyes to see that I can change many of my behaviours to take ‘the whole’ into consideration.

(5) You said “Oh, one other thing: you can’t get a refund. The Desteni site is very clear that once you pay your money, it’s theirs. Refunds will not be granted for any purpose whatsoever. So if the Self-Development and Leadership Course isn’t working for you, you can quit, but you don’t get any portion of your money back. So, once you’re on board to cough up nearly $14,000 to watch YouTube videos about Hitler and learn to masturbate without looking at porn, step two is, you begin recruiting others to get into the cult.”

Here you make it sound like you’re going to be losing thousands of dollars if you drop out of DIP, but in reality, if you have any uncertainty, you pay monthly- as most do- and if you decide to stop, then you would just lose out on whatever you did not complete that month. This is a service; I see it more as an education. It is leadership training, so once it’s learned- you can’t return it. This is normal. It would be like paying for school and then dropping out and asking for your money back for the years you already completed.

 Desteni doesn’t require any contracts or anything like that to rope you in like many companies do. You pay by month, and if you want to stop, or if you can’t afford it, you stop. If you can’t afford it, you can apply for sponsorship and do it for free like me, all I had to do was to show that I understood the material. You can go to desteni.org, to the sponsorship thread on the forum, and see what it looks like to show your understanding of the material. The main point is to get people trained to be leaders who live life with their eyes open, not indoctrinated people who are blinded by beliefs, religion, conspiracies or spirituality.

(6) You said “But how realistic is this? Do you know ten people who believe in reptilian conspiracy theories, are interested in channeling Hitler and L. Ron Hubbard through an interdimensional portal and who aspire to drop Esctasy on a farm in South Africa?”

This is very misleading, here you are purposefully trying to sway or influence people, which is what you are accusing Desteni of doing. Do you see that you are doing it yourself? You swayed my friend to believe I am in a cult, which I am most certainly not. But you’re doing it sloppily, like saying Desteni requires you to believe in reptilian conspiracies and where we ‘aspire to drop Ecstasy on a farm in South Africa”. This is simply not true! By using the Desteni tools, I stopped drinking alcohol and smoking pot a long time ago, even before I was in DIP, I simply used the tools which are available for free on the Desteni site (I wrote a blog about it @ http://thrubreath.blogspot.ca/2011/04/mybbreakup-with-alcohol.html).

 Desteni in no way supports the use of drugs, cigarettes or alcohol. They did research years ago, and now it is thoroughly explained why these things are not conducive to realizing who you really are, in fact they have the opposite effect. Drugs and alcohol are more conducive to suppression, which is counterproductive, and cigarettes pollute and support large corporations. They are also conducive to addiction, which is allowing oneself to be moved and influenced by something other than one’s directive principle. Drugs and alcohol are a waste of money, time and life, and they are abusive to your physical body. This all goes against what is learned through DIP. With DIP you learn how to use your time most effectively, how not to be influenced even by chemical reactions within oneself such as addiction, anxiety, fear, etc… It is a very sobering experience, and you become very aware of exactly what you are doing to your physical body, and you become more aware of what it needs (this has been my experience).

Also, you are not required to believe in any of the things that you named above. Within DIP it is not suggested to believe anything, but rather to test things out for yourself to prove whether or not it is effective for you and for the world. You also learn how to use common sense rather than emotions , feelings or beliefs as cues for decisions and direction. It is true that the Desteni message is a 'tough sell' because the message of equality is the most difficult message to hear as it requires considering others as yourself and placing yourself as an equal to every one else. This is contrary to our current status quo, which has us competing against each other and desiring to climb the latter of success so that we may acheive financial security and power.

(7) You said “Yeah, what about Poolman, anyway? Where is he in all of this? Every pyramid has an apex, and in Desteni, Poolman is clearly sitting right on top of it. He is not only the unquestioned leader of the Desteni cult, whose followers literally believe he can do no wrong”

First, there is no hierarchy at Desteni, there are only those who have a better understanding and mastery of the tools and who are more able to support others who are still learning. Bernard Poolman buys clothes, food and has a room to stay in, and that’s it. You can go to the Desteni farm yourself to see this.

Also, I followed your link called “whose followers literally believe he can do no wrong” (speaking of Bernard Poolman) and it just led me to Daryl Thomas’s blog, which I highly recommend everyone read, but had little mention of Bernard and no mention of believing he can do no wrong. But remember, within Desteni there are no beliefs- only that which can be proven to oneself, by oneself and for oneself, and the use of common sense.

(8) This one is the quote from the website you used to evaluate the DIP  (http://mlm-thetruth.com/evaluating-mlms/5step-eval/step1-endless-chain/)

“MLM programs (MLMs) typically sell “pills, potions, or lotions” or other products that have unique appeal and promise to deliver benefits not available elsewhere….One sees a strong sense of belonging, or an “us versus them” cultish mentality.

DIP teaches you to consider everyone, and to base your actions upon this consideration. That is why we support an Equal Money System, because it is an economic system that supports ALL- not “us versus them"- if you want to make profit while other starve, then you are placing yourself in an “us versus them” mentality. This is not what Desteni is promoting.

The only group I feel “a strong sense of belonging to” is the group that includes all life, and this is what I will stand up for: all-inclusiveness, a.k.a oneness and equality, a.k.a an Equal Money System.

(9) MLMs depend on unlimited recruitment of a network of endless chains of participants, and advancement up the levels in the program is only possible through recruitment of a pyramidal organization of participants, or “downline.”

As I already mentioned, there is a limit of ten recruits per agent. This way, there is no pyramidal structure, only equality and equal opportunity.

(10) You said “Yes, it’s true—the very existence of Desteni’s MLM scheme is a contradiction. One of the marketing hooks of this cult is that they claim to be advocating for something called the “Equal Money System,” which is a basic guaranteed standard of living for all people on Earth.

Yes, the Equal Money System is the raison d’etre for DIP, but that is for each individual to realize and then to make their own decision about.

Within DIP you will learn how to value and consider others as yourself, and seeing the common sense in a world where everyone is provided with the basic necessities required to live a dignified life becomes second nature.

(11) You continue on to say “Naturally, everyone on Earth, once the Equal Money System, comes into being will be able to live the way millionaries do now.”

Yes, because right now only millionaires have the security of food, good healthcare, a good education, a guaranteed shelter and heat during the winter in cold climates, as well as financial security in the future for themselves and their families, guaranteed transportation and communication, guaranteed time off to relax and enjoy life- because they have lots of money. This should be basic stuff, but right now the vast majority of us have to live with the anxiety of not having these things (living with anxieties such as, what if we lose our job? what if we get sick/injured? what about retirement? How will we pay for our children’s education? Or having to work like slaves just to keep up on bills, where some can only dream of having a break).

(12) Then you say “This is sort of a half-assed version of the already severely half-assed “resource based economy” that is pushed by another cult in the conspiracy theory business, the Zeitgeist Movement.”

Desteni is very clear on our stance regarding Zeitgeist and the resource based economy. The Zeitgeist movement will never be successful because it does not use political democratic means, therefore it will always be an illegal movement.

Also, a resourced based economy is not practically possible because the entire world functions with money. That is why we propose an Equal Money System, wherein money will still be utilized to move goods, but the value of money will be backed by life, instead of something separate from life such as debt, or a mineral such as gold. This is a hard concept to grasp because it is so vastly different from anything we were ever taught. For further understanding check out this blog post: (http://kimberly-kline.blogspot.ca/2012/01/response-to-mike-and-mathematically.html) . Or check out equalmoney.org or browse the youtube videos and hundreds of blogs on the topic by searching with the words “equal money” and “desteni."

The Equal Money System will consist of a 2 step process, beginning first with a basic income grant (check out the basic income pilot project in Namibia for context of what a basic income grant is and the effects it has had (http://www.bignam.org/BIG_pilot.html) or check out What the FAQ is equal money at our online store- yup, another money maker: http://eqafe.com/p/what-the-faq-is-equal-money-system-volume-1).

(13) You said: “So what gives? Why, if Desteni wants to equalize the Earth economically, are they pushing a get-rich-quick scheme? “

There’s nothing ‘quick’ about self-change or economic change. This is a process that takes time and requires commitment, and it starts with a commitment to yourself. If you’re like me and have been dealing with things like stress, anxiety (which I see as symptoms of living in a sink-or-swim profit based systemof competition and survival) and/or a lack of discipline (among many other things that may cause an uncomfortable or conflictual inner experience), then you will see how with the Desteni tools, you can take control of it, and take your power back. Then you see that the commitment is nothing of a ‘giving’ of yourself, and is more like a ‘taking back’ of yourself. You also see that the commitment is a complete re-building of yourself from the ground up, so that you can build yourself to be someone you can trust and respect, someone who lives according to principles rather than experience s (a.k.a. a consideration for all versus self-interest). Then you can start actually living the principles of the Equal Money System in your own life, so that you can participate in the process of making it a living reality.

(14) You said: “Well, in classic cult doublespeak, Desteni leader Bernard Poolman claims that by making everyone rich through the Desteni I Process, Destenians will eventually use their money to buy political clout to change “the system” over to the Equal Money System. Curiously, there’s nothing about this on the Desteni I Process webpages; you have to drill into Poolman’s endless series of YouTube sermons in order to appreciate this point.”

Yes, this is how we intend to change the system from within. We have to become the politicians, the economists and the elite in order to have any say because that is who calls the shots today. We are currently in school studying politics, law, economics and psychology so that we place ourselves effectively in the system, as anyone who wants to make a real change should do. This is a personal choice each person has to make: will you be a part of the solution? You can figure this out for yourself as you learn within DIP. For example: no one forced me to go to university to get my degree, no one from Desteni is influencing me when I choose which job to take. I am making these decisions based on common sense, by looking at what I can do to place myself effectively in society. Desteni taught me how to effectively use the resources available to me in my life. I was born into a life where I have three square meals, a roof over my head and access to the internet. This is a very privileged position that most people in the world can only dream of. This is a position of responsibility to those who are struggling to survive. This is common sense.

The root of the problem is the economic system that creates the framework or context within which we exist, one which pits us against each other in a fight for survival, instead of creating an environment of support and consideration among human beings. And the root of that problem is who we have become within ourselves, as human beings. That is why we say ‘self first’, because each person has to deal with their own inner conflict and inner-deception first (for example believing you are more important than another). We created this system based on who we are, we have to change who we are in order to change the type of system we create.

(15) You said “Astoundingly, I found one video by Poolman where he makes a claim that I guarantee you won’t hear from any other huckster of an MLM scheme. He says that the Desteni I Process will make you rich—but you’ll eventually have to give up your riches once Desteni’s Equal Money System is instituted. Yes, you heard that right. This MLM scheme will make you rich, but then you have to give it back.”

Yes, absolutely. Life is not money. Money is paper. We have agreed as humanity to accept the value of money, and we have decided that it is more valuable than the environment and life. In reality it is not, obviously. For me it is worth it to give up riches if I know that it will contribute to the end of children starving and being sold into prostitution, the end of factory farming and slave labour, and of all the problems that are created and can be cured by politics and economics.

But we have to make money in this world to survive, and unfortunately, those with money have more of a voice, therefore, we need to find ways to make money in order that we may have a voice. We are only starting at a grassroots level at the moment, and we have a long way ahead of us. But we will not sway on our principles of equality, oneness and doing what’s best for all instead of only doing what’s best for those with money.  

I invite you to read my process blog where I document my use of the Desteni tools, and apply them in my daily life @ thrubreath.blogspot.com, and my equal money blog @ Kimberly-Kline.bogspot.com.