As an advocate of the Equal Money System, what is your personal economic background?

I have a BA in Political Science from Concordia University in Montreal, Quebec.  I have grown up in a middle class family in Canada, and while growing up I watched both my parents mature and develop as entrepreneurs. My father worked within the insurance industry at first, until it made him physically ill to deny sick and disabled people the money they required for treatment, due to whatever reason he was paid his salary to defend. He turned down the golden path of being ‘groomed’ to climb the ladder of success in the insurance world, and decided to honour himself and his principles and quit to start his own printing company with a partner. During my childhood, I felt the economic impact of his decision to not follow money, but instead lead a life he could live with. However, despite this, he was able to eventually afford a house, a country house and two cars, along with the contribution of my mother’s salary earned from her art, which is stained glass. Therefore, overall, my experience has been one that was provided for.
 
However, despite the fact that my parents ‘did everything right’ according to the American dream of working hard and following the rules within the system-my mother’s main competitor became China, and my father could not compete with Walmart. Now, at the age of retirement, they have literally had to start over.
So what have I learned from my upbringing? That you can do everything ‘right’ according to what we learn we are ‘supposed’ to do and how we are supposed’ to live within this system, but at any point you can have the carpet pulled out from under your feet, only to find yourself living pay-check to pay-check, with no end/relief in sight. This can happen as it did in my family, or it can be a divorce, illness, a lay-off or some other unforeseeable event. This is truly a life without security, without freedom, and plagued by differing degrees of fear. The absolute number one priority is getting a job, keeping the job,  and to continue moving just to keep that pay check coming in. Everything else becomes secondary once that is even slightly compromised.  Within this economic system, if you do not start off with a buffer, this type of compromise is quite possible, and increasingly likely.

I also come from an extended family of educators, entrepreneurs and government employees, artists and computer science professionals. Some made it, others struggled more. Some became ill and the only thing that saved them was Canada’s crumbling social safety net.  The only thing keeping that safety net in place is the people, the actual population of the country.
What I learned from my political science degree is that politics are truly compromised by the opposing forces of taking care of the people, and making Canada an economically desirable location for businesses and corporations The high taxes that pay for the medicare system, for example,  are not attractive to companies looking for a home base, thus compromising Canada’s economy. Yet the high taxes help pay for the social systems that catch those like my uncle, who developed cancer, or my sister who’s self-employed husband required surgery at the time of the birth of their third child- both my sister and her husband either have or are working towards their Master’s degrees in their respective fields- everything is fine till something happens. An the entire system is based on this economic tug-of-war, which in many countries is won by the profit-based sector, thus providing no safety net at all.

My teachers included politicians that worked actively within the system, and the same message was delivered over and over, in so many ways: Politics do not function as the rules stipulate in my textbooks, and most of what is familiar as politics is nothing more than theater. They literally have to play camera tricks at assembly meetings in the Capital to make it look like there are more participants in the publicly aired debates than there actually are. Politicians that don’t tow the party line end up as back-benchers or representatives of small insignificant electoral constituencies, they are denied from having a voice. If they do have a voice, it is only allowed if they are in the minority and of no real threat to actually change anything. With the “first-past-the-post” electoral system in Canada, the representation of the people is skewed through such ways as tactical voting from fear of having one’s vote ‘wasted’, and resulting in a ‘winner’ that represents sometimes less than half of the population.  The ‘party line’ is dictated by lobbyists that have unchallengeable resources, and the rules and regulations of the system are written by them in such language that those that are not fortunate enough to have received a decent education would take great pains to comprehend, and thus do not participate to represent themselves or take a stand. And this is generally the majority, the growing lower class that is too busy trying to get by to be able to also make the investment to learn about how the system that dictates their lives was actually created and how it functions.

My teacher told me, politicians are not evil. They are ‘good’ people trying to make a difference and represent the people that voted for them. However, law by law, the system has been created to cater to those with the most resources, to the point where to go against it would be like economic suicide, as I experienced to a degree while growing up. But there are instruments within the system that are there to give it legitimacy, which could be used to actually empower and represent the people- all of us-That is why it is necessary to work with the system, from within the system, as the Equal Money System proposes. There are many many people that this system is taking too much from. Yet it is our value as human beings, and the value of the environment and all the elements that work together to sustain life, that are being taken and turned into ‘profit.’, 'Profit' which is of no actual physical value, save that if your life circumstances and chance placed you in a position to obtain it, will give you access to life’s actual resources, over and above others. It is precisely those that we continue to take from, that is allowing us to continue to grow rich, the equation is directly related and there is actually no such thing as working hard to ‘earn’ a living. Life is not earned. We all deserve a living, and a life, for the mere fact of having been born. What we are actually doing is not ‘earning’, but empowering ourselves to take more than our fair share, thus directly taking from others. And for those that are poor, are on well-fare or are for whatever reason subjugated to the label of being a ‘burden on society’- it is impossible to place such a judgment without considering the entire context of their lives, and the forces imposed upon them, the resources they had access to, and who were they competing with.
 
For all the reasons I’ve listed here, including my life experience and my education, both within University and the self-education I have worked towards, I stand for an Equal Money System.  I have supported myself through employment my entire adult life,  and I now work at a ‘good’ job with stability and the opportunity to ‘climb the ladder’ to a comfortable life. Through the research I’ve done by pushing myself to understand the economic system and how it functions, and how we’re all actually directly or indirectly impacting the entire world through our participation within it- I could not possibly justify putting my head down and working hard to ‘earn’ my living .I will work hard, and I will push myself to be successful, but my efforts will always contain the starting point of contributing to the development and implementation of a system that will provide my nieces and nephews and all members of future generations, as well as the natural environment required to support them , with a life that they can actually live. One with security and without the fear of what might be around the next bend, without wondering how they will afford to educate themselves and their children, or how they will survive in their old age or if they become sick. This type of a system will produce a changed human, but we must first change ourselves In order to be able to even comprehend and grasp what Life could be if we actually stopped competing to survive. What if we started to instead honour ourselves as life already, and care for one another as members of one group, the group called Life?

Response to Muertos 2

Hi again Muertos. I read your response to my blog and responded to it to the best of my ability in this post:
(Your statements will be in Italics)

You claim that the Desteni I Process is a means to self-finance a political/social movement to remake the world in Desteni's image. Yet, researching Desteni, I see very little evidence that this is the case.

DIP is but one of the ways the Desteni group is financing itself to eventually (realistically, in about 10 years) enter into politics to change public policy from profit-based policies to policies that support life. For more details about the political platform which you can vote and comment on, visit the Equal Money Website (equalmoney.org). Desteni doesn’t have any specific ‘image,’ it is a group with clearly defined and stated principles, which are to consider all life within everything you do (a.k.a: equality and oneness). I’m taking a First Peoples Studies class right now, and I learned that part of Native American ideology is to “think seven generations ahead”, so that, within whatever you do, you think about the effects your choices and actions might have for the next seven generations to come. But why stop at seven? That’s the difference with Desteni: it is to consider all Life, for all time.

            You probably found very little evidence about the political movement, first of all, because the Desteni material is extensive and takes a serious commitment to research and understand. It’s really easy to just skim it over and make ideas about it that are completely opposed to what the group stands for.

Second, because the ‘Desteni’ aspect of this process is where the personal processes of individuals is taking place, while the Equal Money side of things is where politics, monetary system, health and educations systems etc… are more specifically discussed. There is much overlapping, but generally, there is a division. For example, people will have two different blogs for the two different categories. In the end, it’s all one and it intersects all over the place. I didn’t know about the Equal Money movement right away either, it took me about a year to get to that point, but it’s becoming more obvious now as more people are participating and understanding the principles and how the two relate to each other (the individual process and the ‘world systems’ process). My personal blog : thrubreath.blogspot.com or kimsjourneytolife.blogspot.com, Equal money blog is this blog.

Thirdly- right now the focus/priority is on the individual processes, because nobody can change anything until they change themselves first. So, right now the priority is self-change while the platform for the Equal Money System and the political processes are in their very first initial stages in terms of the websites, social media networking, funding, and clearly explaining the principles in every way possible and putting it online in writing and vlogs. This will take a lot of time, dedication, commitment, and the evidence of our dedication, commitment and the investment of our time is found in the websites, funding methods, networking, vlogs and blogs which are everywhere.

 You say you're not paying for DIP courses. Who is paying, then? Somebody somewhere must be--and if you say that the proceeds of selling DIP courses is for the purpose of financing political change, there is money changing hands somewhere. So my question is: where is this money going? Do you even know where it's going? Have you ever bothered to ask where it's going?

I’m not paying for my DIPcourses because I have been sponsored. The sponsorship program is built into the design of the course. A percentage coming from every paying member is committed to the sponsorship program, and many people are being sponsored (about half, the last time I heard). It is Desteni members supporting other members. When I am able, I will pay for my courses in order to support those who cannot. It is worth it to me, and I’m committed to support a group that is dedicated to change.

I’ve never asked where the money is going because I was never asked for money.

Nobody is asked for money.

If you decide to do DIP it is YOUR decision which you should thoroughly consider and fit into your life when you are ready. The people who make that decision have been participating with Desteni for long enough to see for themselves where the money is going.

If you’re concerned about where the money is going within any kind of investment or donation, then don’t give invest money. If you’re not comfortable, then thoroughly research it before you make a decision. I wouldn’t recommend giving one’s money away to anything or anyone unless you have proven to yourself through thorough research that the company or business is legit. That is common sense.

From my perspective, as someone who has tried it out for herself, it is the most worthwhile investment one can make, because it is an investment in myself as well as in the change I want to see and work for. But this I proved to myself. I never placed blind faith into Desteni. I tried the tools for myself, I read the information, I interacted and asked questions, I participated. I read the cult websites that were opposed to Desteni so that I could see it from both sides. I did all of that for several years before I made the decision to join DIP and purchase some products from the Eqafe.com online store (which also has an affiliate program that gives a percentage of sales back to members who chose to participate).

Yes there are parts of Desteni that you can pay for IF you choose to do so, but the majority of it is free, and both DIP and the Eqafe online store are designed to support you in return.

 If this were a scam, it wouldn’t be very profitable, because if you try out the course and you don’t like it, all you’re liable to loose is less than one month’s course payment. Think about that. It just doesn’t make sense.

What does make sense is that this is a legitimate leadership training program that people have first tried out for free and then decided to pursue once they proved to themselves it works.

What also makes sense is that this is a group who have found a very plausible solution to a really huge and horrible global situation, and are now, against all odds, dedicating themselves to that solution. It just requires commitment by a large group of self-directed people, which is what we’re busy building.

Everybody who is aware of the suffering on earth should be clamoring over each other to get into politics to change the laws and policies that have created these problems, yet Desteni is the only group that I have heard of that is proposing a global political economic solution to a global political economic problem. If you were a person starving in an impoverished country, what would you want the population in rich countries to be doing? By placing myself in their shoes, I decide how I should be directing myself as a human being, and I figure out what is really important.

 If you take DIP, you will be so thoroughly faced with the interconnectedness of this world, that you will feel the urgency of the situation of the planet as if it were your own responsibility to act (which it is). So we act. But self-change is first required, because the nature of who we are as humanity is how we got into this situation in the first place. So first we find a way to change our nature, eliminate the fear, the consumerism, the deception, the ego, the self-interest, the superiority/inferiority, the judgment etc, etc, etc. We cannot be trusted with life until we deal with this stuff first, as efficiently and effectively as possible.

The Desteni material, when applied, allows you to build a mirror in which you can see the things you’ve put up with in your life so that you can change, it reveals to us our nature in order that we may face it, forgive it and change it. We do this until we establish self-trust, and we continue to do this until we are a large group who can be trusted. But first we have to prove to ourselves we can be trusted. Have you ever made a commitment to yourself and then failed to live up to it? The Desteni tools, and especially DIP, helps you develop the discipline to make commitments and live up to them.

If indeed Desteni is using this MLM scheme as a way to finance a political/social movement, where is the fund or foundation that's being used to do this?

The Equal Life Foundation. (Equallife.org- still being developed but the site is up, the domain is owned)

Is it a nonprofit?

Yes.

 Whose laws (which country) is it organized under?

It is based out of South Africa, under their laws. Here is the info from the introduction page of the Equal Money website "The Equal Money System (EMS) is a research and development Project to formulate and investigate responses to general policies that affect the day to day life on Earth as to lifestyle for human, animal and plant. This project is managed and directed under the auspices of the Equal Life Foundation, a Non-Profit Organization, constituted under South African Law, duly audited as per legal requirements. Please support this NPO – either by donating or buying products from our online store."

 Have you seen its profit and loss statements? If you or someone on your behalf is contributing money to an organization that you seem to describe as a non-profit, you have a right to see the finances and know where the money is going.

All laws will be abided by and thoroughly adhered to, just like they are with DIP and Eqafe.

Why is Desteni not using this money to finance political campaigns?

It is too early for political campaigns; we are right now doing research, writing online books, exposing current problems, setting up websites, blogging, vlogging, supporting each other on forums, developing social networks, learning the way the current system works, going to school, training leaders that can be trusted to lead as equals, and forming a group from all that are willing and able to join and commit themselves to themselves and to all life as themselves. This entire endeavor is being built from the ground up, it is a huge endeavor that cannot just happen, it is happening little by little, consistently over time, which will bring about results.

Recently, a new desteni-specific social networking site has been put up called destonians- the earthlings, as well as a Desteni- Wiki site explaining concepts and terminology. There ave also been countless facebook groups organized, for example, stopping a habit in 21 days, redefining money, the 7 year journey to life, animals lead the way to oneness and equality, occupy solution: the Equal Money Solution, stop all religions and learn to live as equals, blogging and vlogging and sharing self-realizations, 2012- The year of self-transformation, self-forgiveness group, Redefining health and disease, wellness and illness, The equal life party -one party, one princl=iple- equality, why is starvation not murder? Insanity of the Beauty Industry, and many, many more. The latest development is the change in the Equal Money System website; the political platform has been posted. It has been posted in a way that reflects how the Equal Life Party will function: one man, one vote in an interactive venue that allows one to disagree and place input into each decision. Many in the group are in school, studying law, economics, education, politics and psychology, or working at jobs that will place them in the most effective positions to stabilize themselves financially so that we are not owned by debt.

How many candidates is Desteni running, and for which offices?

Desteni will begin the political process in about 10 years; these questions will be dealt with when the time comes. As I have said, this is being built up from nothing, leaders are being trained, and information is being made available to all current leaders who are able to hear and understand the importance of valuing life and the environment over money. If current leaders do not step forth and stand up for a dignified life for all, then anyone who joins Desteni will learn to give themselves what it will take to stand up for life in this way, by their own actions. This is done by placing themselves effectively to do what they can with the resources they have and with the support of the group, in order to work within a group to bring about change. This group is completely open to anyone who is willing to stop and change. I can’t predict the future, but this is what I see is already happening, and what will continue to happen over the years as the group grows and the individuals within it become more effective.

 How are they paying for their campaigns?

Remember that MLM ‘scheme’ you’ve been all up in arms about? The subject of your first blog, then my response, then your response to my response? That's one way. Then there’s other courses and the Eqafe online store, donations, t-shirts, blog books. We’re self-financed.

 Is Desteni paying volunteers to go out there and drum up support for the Equal Money System? If so, who is paying them, how are they being paid, and where is the money coming from?

 Volunteers are ‘drumming up support’ freely, by explaining the common sense and absolute gains of an equality-based system through blogging, vlogging and social media. That’s what we do; we use our time to spread the message of equality over social media so that people realize that this failing economic system has an alternative that can be better than what we have now. Personally, I do it because it’s what I would want for myself, it’s the kind of system I want for my nieces and nephew and for their children and so on. I don’t want future generations to repeat our mistakes, so I do not expect to be paid to explain this as much as possible. Nobody involved in Desteni is paid to ‘drum up support’.

You claim there's total transparency in the system. If that's truly the case, you should be able to answer these questions quite easily.

It was quite easy for me to answer these questions.

You claim that DIP cannot be a pyramid scheme or hierarchy because each agent is limited to 10 followers (in MLM speak, each distributor has a maximum downline of 10). This is nonsensical and doesn't eliminate the pyramidal structure at all. In fact, it reinforces it; if you're planning to take the world by storm but each distributor is limited to a downline of 10, you're going to need a lot more distributors, aren't you? Therefore, the 10 downline cap is in place to expand the horizontal reach of the pyramid at the bottom--but the money is still going right to the top. It's actually pretty rare in well-financed MLM schemes for a distributor to have more than 10 in their downline, because most MLM distributors make peanuts anyway. This does not alleviate my concerns whatsoever.

Yes,DIP is structured as an MLM business, yes Desteni is going to be supported by its members this way, while at the same time giving members the opportunity to support ourselves. The maximum of ten recruits ensures equality among members, and as I’ve said before, the MLM includes a sponsorship program to ensure equality for those who can’t afford it. There are many abusive pyramid and MLM’s out there because that is what our current economic system rewards, but Desteni is not one of them. Just because Desteni has to find ways to make money does not mean it is automatically ‘up to no good’. Actually, when I think about it, most businesses that are out to make money are up to no good, because they are placing profit above life. Desteni values life, and will always work towards an economic system that does the same.

You claim that Desteni has no leader. What role do you believe Bernard Poolman plays in the Desteni organization? You do realize that all of the initial Desteni material--the weird videos with the chupacabra icon, Sunette Spies channeling Hitler and pieces of toilet paper, etc.--was all created and directed by Bernard Poolman, right? If he's not the leader, what is he?

Bernard Poolman realized what it would take to create a real lasting change in this world and he started to do it. He realized that only a group of equals would be able to effect this change, so he used the internet. As a result, people learned what he was doing, saw the common-sense in it and began doing it as well. He is the one with the most experience with the Desteni tools. He shares the realizations he’s had through social media. As far as I have ever seen, he is dedicated to equality and bringing it about first through economic equality to get humanity on an equal playing field (to play together, not in competition).

I have been involved with Desteni for 3-4 years, and Bernard Poolman has had very little to do with my personal process of self-change. He doesn’t have that kind of power over anyone, nor would he want it. Because if someone can be manipulated by him, then they can be manipulated by anyone and therefor they can’t be trusted. If anything, Bernard challenges one to look into why they react to him. If you are reactive, then you can’t be trusted either because then your reactions have more control over you then you do. People who lash out in anger and hate or allow greed are not self-directive, but rather directed by their emotions and feelings.

I watch the videos Bernard makes for insights and the common sense they offer.

The chupacabra is a painting made by Andrew Gable from Canada and is not some mystical magical mysterious thing, he made it up himself and Bernard liked it. It’s composed of all different animals forming one being, which is a cool message. I don’t know if that’s why Bernard chose to use it, but that’s why I like it and I find it fitting for someone who is dedicated to the principle of oneness (and equality).

His role is as an equal in the group. We’re all making videos, blogging and vlogging, he just makes more than most are able to, and his videos tend to bring out more reactions from people. I think he does that on purpose, because he’s only ever talking about equality, and the absolute evil of humanity in this world. Many people don’t like to hear that, but it’s true. There are some serious atrocities going on in the world, to the animals and to children and poor people and within all walks of life. Let’s acknowledge that and not pretend like everything is rosy. It’s not. It’s so beyond fucked-up that I don’t think a lot of people could handle it. I have a hard time watching youtube videos of farmers burying hundreds of pigs alive, and factory farms and the abuse of animals. Now think of that on a mass scale, add child prostitution and rape, murder, the appalling violence of war, torture, starvation. Bernard talks about that stuff and reminds us that we’re all responsible for it because we participate in a system that creates it, supports it, allows it, rewards it, accepts it. That is some EVIL shit, and it needs to end. That is what he is saying. People will react because it’s a tough pill to swallow.

But if you react to his videos you’re basically saying “I’m not responsible for this” or “I am not equal to this evil, I am better than it’ or “I am less than it.” That’s not true, we are all exactly equal to it, and until we realize that, it will not change. Anything other than equality allows us to ignore the problem or only try half-assed solutions. We need to realize our ABSOLUTE equality to other people and to the world systems if we are to empower ourselves to change it. The only thing that makes us unequal to those starving in poverty is money, so an Equal Money System will solve that so that we can finally see the real equality that is here that money obscures.

“I commit myself to stand with each that choose to stand till this is done and through such support it will be as if I have walked it myself, yet each part would have walked themselves to life, yet they were not alone as we walk as one yet as self responsible for self.” –Bernad Poolman

Most of the justifications you present for joining the DIP are very vague statements about equality and such. There are no specifics. When Desteni members are challenged on the unsavory aspects of their group, they retreat to very bland generalities about "equality, oneness and doing what's best for all." Any further questioning of Desteni dogma usually sparks the challenged person to paint the questioner as opposing the idea of equality. That is a classic cult mind-control tactic.

All of our process blogs are the Desteni tools 'in use,'  whch are learned in DIP or for free on the website. Learning these tools is THE reason for doing DIP, understanding these tools, their purpose and effectiveness is accomplished through reading the blogs. You can also read the ‘blogging forsponsorship’ thread on the desteni site to see why people are joining DIP, by showing that they are comitted and have a good grasp of the tools and the reason for using the tools.. The rest of your statement here does not apply to me, as I have answered all of your questions to the best of my ability. You are making accusations about Desteni members here, but this has not been my experience.

 Equality and oneness and doing what’s best for all is not a bland generality, it is a set of principles that systems (such as economic or educational systems) can be founded upon. Whatever system is created by mankind should be created according to these principles, because that is what you or anyone would want if you were born into a position of lack. A system based on these principles would not allow lack, because those creating the systems would consider themselves equal to those who the system is being created for. That’s equality.

Oneness involves viewing the entire world system as one thing, where something that happens over here effects and has consequences over there. Like one country that over-consumes creates another country that doesn’t have enough because of finite resources.

Doing what’s best for all involves every aspect of a system to be analyzed by policy analysis techniques (which already exist today to analyze current policy) in order to make sure that everyone is considered in all decisions.

Equality and oneness and doing what’s best for all can and must also be applied on an individual level: Equality involves, for example, notjudging (for example, viewing another  as inferior or superior rather than your equal), not reacting (because then you allow another to have power over you instead of you being equal to yourself and directing yourself).

Oneness involves valuing yourself as others, and others as yourself. And this includes all life- obviously. I know some may find this part crazy and think something like “I’m not equal to a plant” or something likfe that. But, in reality, we value ourselves more than our environment, and look at the effects that has: we’re destroying it. We are running out of water. Our oceans are full of nuclear waste, plastic, oil, dispersants, tires, garbage, sewage and all sorts of other human by-products and waste which is created and exasperated in a profit-based economic system. If we valued our environment as much as we valued ourselves or money, the world would be a very different place.

Doing what’s best for all means, within every action we consider its effects on the whole.

For an example of incorporating and integrating the principles of equality and oneness into an individual life, read my blog about the 7 year process I have committed to here: kimsjourneytolife.blogspot.com

I'm glad that may blog caused your friend to try to intervene. That's definitely a good friend.

Yes- I agree that is what a good friend should do if he or she claims to care, and I told her that. The problem is that she was misinformed, by you. She’s cool about it now- at least that’s what she expressed.

 You are in a dangerous and destructive cult.

I have here taken the time to answer your response as an equal. I only ask that you do the same within my following question:

1) how exactly is Desteni dangerous, and where did you get that information? Please provide examples, either direct quotes and their location online, or specific videos and which part in the video concerns you. Please notice this question has two parts; How is it dangerous, and, back your argument with supporting proof. This is not an unreasonable request, because if you don’t provide proof that everyone can check out for themselves, then you can just say anything. I want to keep this in the realm of reality by providing proof that anyone who has internet access can verify for themselves, and not just in your mind of ideas where you can think anything you want (and say it) without having to actually back yourself up.

There are resources out there for people in your situation to try to disconnect from mind control cults, but you have to want to do it.

The mind control cult I want to disconnect from is this CULTure I live in, which had me believing I needed to be seen as beautiful and sexy in order to have value -which trained me to compete with my fellow man in order to be successful. -which had me believing success was a matter of how much money I make, regardless of what consequences I was creating through making it –which had me believing I can’t change, -which promotes mindless drinking and sex without promoting commitment, understanding and respect, –which tells me Hollywood is more important than billions starving –which promotes piece of shit products that are cheap and polluting and waste my money, but is okay because it creates profit somewhere else, -which sells violence and sex to children and young adults through movies, magazines, videogames and online, -which condones war and calls it patriotic and heroic, -where if you don't have money, you don't have a voice or a value… I can go on and on…  What I am describing here is a dangerous and destructive cult. This culture we live in; our status quo.

This is what Desteni is taking on as a task to change. Spreading common sense so that people can look at how dangerous and destructive we have become, and pointing out the consequences which are slowly arriving at our doorsteps. The systems that supposedly 'support us' are fracturing, they’re failing us. Look at Canada’s healthcare system, look at unemployment in the U.S., look at the economy in Europe, look at debt. When people are fed up and ready to realize the need for change is imminent, the Equal Money System will be there, more mature then it is now, more acceptable than it seems now, because now people are still comfortable; we can still live the lie that consumerism is ok and nothing bad is happening. But the entire world is practically screaming at us to wake up. Those of us who live in insulated bubbles in developed countries, who have enough, i.e.: those of us with the power to change things, but refuse to because of what it would require, are the ones who need to be shaken awake. But like you said, you have to want it. No one can do that for you.

 Anyone who joins Desteni is making the commitment and the statement that we are ready to face it now, to change our lives and stop living the lie. We may be innocent because we were born into this system as it is, but we cannot claim ignorance. When one decides to realize this, Desteni will be waiting. I will be waiting. Bernard Poolman will be waiting. Waiting to support you to change yourself, to take on the enormous task, to empower yourself, to commit. But while everybody reacts to us, ignores us, watches us from the sidelines, or whatever- we will be constantly and continuously working on ourselves and taking small steps, day by day, to grow the awareness and realization, the concept of Equal Money and the funding necessary, and creating a platform that will be able to support it all.

 I hope you'll pull out of it because I hate to see shady people like Bernard Poolman use and abuse the trust and admiration of innocent people who fall into his orbit. Good luck to you.

Hope is just another word for inaction. Bernard Poolmandoesn’t have that kind of power. I may be innocent, but I’m not ignorant. I don’t require luck because I am taking full responsibility for what I do and the consequences thereof. Besides, ‘wishing’ someone ‘luck’ is really an ineffective way to have an influence or make an impact in any way- I’m just saying.

Response to Muertos

Hi Muertos

I was led to your blog about the Desteni I Process by a friend of mine who read it and became concerned about me. I am a Desteni I Process ‘agent’, and after reading your blog, my friend thought I was in a pyramid-scheme and a cult. Upon reading your blog for myself, I found many discrepancies which I will list below. The fact that your blog contained so much misinformation is either due to a lack of proper research, or an attempt to persuade or influence your readers to believe what you want them to believe (instead of presenting them with actual facts). So you are either spreading misinformation through irresponsible research, or you are trying to deliberately deceive your readers (which you are accusing Desteni of doing). Either way, your blog is misleading.

At Desteni we publish everything we do in our real names so that we can stand by everything we say. As you stated several times, all the information is clearly indicated on the webpage, including the pricing and the structure of the desteni I process. There is nothing hidden and no secrets. This is an act of transparency, and not “a group that seems to have few scruples about the techniques it uses to attract new members”. There’s nothing to have “scruples” about; it’s all out in the open, if you’re not interested, then don’t apply.

The growing group that supports themselves through Desteni have this in common: we want to support people to empower themselves to become future leaders who are willing to take on a corrupt economic and political system, so that we can replace it with one that doesn’t value money over life and the environment. Why? Because it makes sense: We are destroying the planet and people are starving.

The most effective way to change this system is through legal political democratic means, and this is a very expensive endeavor, especially if it is self-financed. We have to be self-financed because if we are financed by corporations like many political leaders are, then we will be owned, as many political leaders are. And besides, no corporation will finance a group that has equality as their political platform, because that would mean the end of their profit. We are not interested in profit; we are interested in financing political change. Public policy is our tool, not revolution, activism or demonstration. But first we need a large group of self-honest people who are ready to put their self-interest aside and take on a world that is in very serious trouble. DIP is leadership training that teaches you how to do this, and that also offers the financial support necessary to exist in this world and to finance the much needed change.

The Desteni I Process gives you the tools to be and become a leader that is capable of standing for change. If you chose to do the process and to instead use it for self-interest, then that is your choice. However, that is unlikely, because in doing this process, you learn how to see through the veil of self-interest to the bigger picture, the one where suffering and abuse is something that needs to be immediately stopped and the one where change is long overdue.

Following is a list of discrepancies and their corrections:

About the Desteni I Process, (1) you said, “the model functions on the basis of infinite expansion”

In actual fact, the model is based upon a limit of 10 recruits per agent. In this way, everyone has an equal opportunity and there is no hierarchy.

The entire structure is based on equality so that everyone has the opportunity to learn the tools, to support themselves while doing so, and to support others through the ‘sponsorship program’ which you forgot to mention. I personally am being sponsored, so I am not paying for my Desteni I Process (DIP) courses. So, instead of making maximum profit, the structure is set up to allow as many people as possible to have access to learning the Desteni tools (self-forgiveness, self-honesty, self-corrective application).

In fact, on the main page at Desteni.org, there is enough free material to apply in one’s life for at least three years. It is suggested to learn and understand the material for free at the Desteni.org website before you make a decision to start the ‘I Process’. Nobody should influence you in your decision; it should be a self-willed action that is decided only after you have proved to yourself that the tools work. Nobody can do this for you.

(2) You said “Not knowing the laws of South Africa, where I assume the Desteni I Process business is based, for purposes of this blog I assume that it is not technically illegal”

The Desteni I Process is an international endeavor; I am Canadian and participate from my home. DIP follows international business laws and is completely legal. Yes, there are many abusive pyramid schemes out there, but DIP is not one of them.

(3) You say “Desteni combines their MLM scheme with some of the more esoteric aspects of their cult, thus playing on a curious mixture of their followers’ spiritual, personal and financial motivations.”

Here you call Desteni a cult with followers, but it is not. First of all, there is no leader, there is also no belief system and no followers. It is stated very clearly within the Desteni material that being a follower is not acceptable because it is not a self-willed action- it is rather being influenced by another, be it a ‘leader’ or not. Desteni is about becoming a group of self-willed leaders who work together cooperatively to bring about change. It is about proving to yourself through the specific writing tools, that you can trust yourself, that you can live the words you speak (i.e.: if you say you’re going to do something, you actually do it). If we are able to be influenced by a leader, then we will have no personal power, but will rather be like sheep. We have had enough of being treated like cattle, and are ready to stand up by our own will and take a stand against the way things currently are.

(4) You say “You’ll learn how to talk, think and act like a Destonian, and presumably at some point you’ll be asked to shave your head and you’ll be exposed to Desteni cult leader Bernard Poolman’s bizarre rants about reptilian conspiracies.”

What you will actually learn is how to be yourself, and not be influenced by others or even by yourself (for example, I learned why I get nervous when I have to speak in front of large groups, and how to instead remain stable and certain within myself, in this way, I stopped influencing myself).

The face world/face off campaign that involved head shaving is over, but I highly recommend it as a personal challenge to face the world with no hair. It was a really cool experience and I do recommend it to everyone, but at no point will you be asked to do it within DIP.

From a common-sense perspective, we use all these products for our hair, millions of us, to make it look beautiful or to make it grow etc… but these products are super polluting and are destroying our drinking water. It takes really intensive processes to get chemicals out of the water, yet we continue to use more and more products. It doesn’t make any sense to sacrifice our drinking water for beauty.

When we shaved our heads it was a statement of putting personal ego and self-interest aside for the sake of a natural resource that is invaluable and cannot be replaced. Besides, why do we feel we need to look beautiful to be accepted? Why do we not accept ourselves as we are? These are the types of questions that you will be able to face and answer within DIP.

Some Destonians continue to shave, others don’t. I grew my hair back and now use biodegradable shampoos/soaps and cleaning products. I wash less and take shorter showers because the Desteni material made me open my eyes to see that I can change many of my behaviours to take ‘the whole’ into consideration.

(5) You said “Oh, one other thing: you can’t get a refund. The Desteni site is very clear that once you pay your money, it’s theirs. Refunds will not be granted for any purpose whatsoever. So if the Self-Development and Leadership Course isn’t working for you, you can quit, but you don’t get any portion of your money back. So, once you’re on board to cough up nearly $14,000 to watch YouTube videos about Hitler and learn to masturbate without looking at porn, step two is, you begin recruiting others to get into the cult.”

Here you make it sound like you’re going to be losing thousands of dollars if you drop out of DIP, but in reality, if you have any uncertainty, you pay monthly- as most do- and if you decide to stop, then you would just lose out on whatever you did not complete that month. This is a service; I see it more as an education. It is leadership training, so once it’s learned- you can’t return it. This is normal. It would be like paying for school and then dropping out and asking for your money back for the years you already completed.

 Desteni doesn’t require any contracts or anything like that to rope you in like many companies do. You pay by month, and if you want to stop, or if you can’t afford it, you stop. If you can’t afford it, you can apply for sponsorship and do it for free like me, all I had to do was to show that I understood the material. You can go to desteni.org, to the sponsorship thread on the forum, and see what it looks like to show your understanding of the material. The main point is to get people trained to be leaders who live life with their eyes open, not indoctrinated people who are blinded by beliefs, religion, conspiracies or spirituality.

(6) You said “But how realistic is this? Do you know ten people who believe in reptilian conspiracy theories, are interested in channeling Hitler and L. Ron Hubbard through an interdimensional portal and who aspire to drop Esctasy on a farm in South Africa?”

This is very misleading, here you are purposefully trying to sway or influence people, which is what you are accusing Desteni of doing. Do you see that you are doing it yourself? You swayed my friend to believe I am in a cult, which I am most certainly not. But you’re doing it sloppily, like saying Desteni requires you to believe in reptilian conspiracies and where we ‘aspire to drop Ecstasy on a farm in South Africa”. This is simply not true! By using the Desteni tools, I stopped drinking alcohol and smoking pot a long time ago, even before I was in DIP, I simply used the tools which are available for free on the Desteni site (I wrote a blog about it @ http://thrubreath.blogspot.ca/2011/04/mybbreakup-with-alcohol.html).

 Desteni in no way supports the use of drugs, cigarettes or alcohol. They did research years ago, and now it is thoroughly explained why these things are not conducive to realizing who you really are, in fact they have the opposite effect. Drugs and alcohol are more conducive to suppression, which is counterproductive, and cigarettes pollute and support large corporations. They are also conducive to addiction, which is allowing oneself to be moved and influenced by something other than one’s directive principle. Drugs and alcohol are a waste of money, time and life, and they are abusive to your physical body. This all goes against what is learned through DIP. With DIP you learn how to use your time most effectively, how not to be influenced even by chemical reactions within oneself such as addiction, anxiety, fear, etc… It is a very sobering experience, and you become very aware of exactly what you are doing to your physical body, and you become more aware of what it needs (this has been my experience).

Also, you are not required to believe in any of the things that you named above. Within DIP it is not suggested to believe anything, but rather to test things out for yourself to prove whether or not it is effective for you and for the world. You also learn how to use common sense rather than emotions , feelings or beliefs as cues for decisions and direction. It is true that the Desteni message is a 'tough sell' because the message of equality is the most difficult message to hear as it requires considering others as yourself and placing yourself as an equal to every one else. This is contrary to our current status quo, which has us competing against each other and desiring to climb the latter of success so that we may acheive financial security and power.

(7) You said “Yeah, what about Poolman, anyway? Where is he in all of this? Every pyramid has an apex, and in Desteni, Poolman is clearly sitting right on top of it. He is not only the unquestioned leader of the Desteni cult, whose followers literally believe he can do no wrong”

First, there is no hierarchy at Desteni, there are only those who have a better understanding and mastery of the tools and who are more able to support others who are still learning. Bernard Poolman buys clothes, food and has a room to stay in, and that’s it. You can go to the Desteni farm yourself to see this.

Also, I followed your link called “whose followers literally believe he can do no wrong” (speaking of Bernard Poolman) and it just led me to Daryl Thomas’s blog, which I highly recommend everyone read, but had little mention of Bernard and no mention of believing he can do no wrong. But remember, within Desteni there are no beliefs- only that which can be proven to oneself, by oneself and for oneself, and the use of common sense.

(8) This one is the quote from the website you used to evaluate the DIP  (http://mlm-thetruth.com/evaluating-mlms/5step-eval/step1-endless-chain/)

“MLM programs (MLMs) typically sell “pills, potions, or lotions” or other products that have unique appeal and promise to deliver benefits not available elsewhere….One sees a strong sense of belonging, or an “us versus them” cultish mentality.

DIP teaches you to consider everyone, and to base your actions upon this consideration. That is why we support an Equal Money System, because it is an economic system that supports ALL- not “us versus them"- if you want to make profit while other starve, then you are placing yourself in an “us versus them” mentality. This is not what Desteni is promoting.

The only group I feel “a strong sense of belonging to” is the group that includes all life, and this is what I will stand up for: all-inclusiveness, a.k.a oneness and equality, a.k.a an Equal Money System.

(9) MLMs depend on unlimited recruitment of a network of endless chains of participants, and advancement up the levels in the program is only possible through recruitment of a pyramidal organization of participants, or “downline.”

As I already mentioned, there is a limit of ten recruits per agent. This way, there is no pyramidal structure, only equality and equal opportunity.

(10) You said “Yes, it’s true—the very existence of Desteni’s MLM scheme is a contradiction. One of the marketing hooks of this cult is that they claim to be advocating for something called the “Equal Money System,” which is a basic guaranteed standard of living for all people on Earth.

Yes, the Equal Money System is the raison d’etre for DIP, but that is for each individual to realize and then to make their own decision about.

Within DIP you will learn how to value and consider others as yourself, and seeing the common sense in a world where everyone is provided with the basic necessities required to live a dignified life becomes second nature.

(11) You continue on to say “Naturally, everyone on Earth, once the Equal Money System, comes into being will be able to live the way millionaries do now.”

Yes, because right now only millionaires have the security of food, good healthcare, a good education, a guaranteed shelter and heat during the winter in cold climates, as well as financial security in the future for themselves and their families, guaranteed transportation and communication, guaranteed time off to relax and enjoy life- because they have lots of money. This should be basic stuff, but right now the vast majority of us have to live with the anxiety of not having these things (living with anxieties such as, what if we lose our job? what if we get sick/injured? what about retirement? How will we pay for our children’s education? Or having to work like slaves just to keep up on bills, where some can only dream of having a break).

(12) Then you say “This is sort of a half-assed version of the already severely half-assed “resource based economy” that is pushed by another cult in the conspiracy theory business, the Zeitgeist Movement.”

Desteni is very clear on our stance regarding Zeitgeist and the resource based economy. The Zeitgeist movement will never be successful because it does not use political democratic means, therefore it will always be an illegal movement.

Also, a resourced based economy is not practically possible because the entire world functions with money. That is why we propose an Equal Money System, wherein money will still be utilized to move goods, but the value of money will be backed by life, instead of something separate from life such as debt, or a mineral such as gold. This is a hard concept to grasp because it is so vastly different from anything we were ever taught. For further understanding check out this blog post: (http://kimberly-kline.blogspot.ca/2012/01/response-to-mike-and-mathematically.html) . Or check out equalmoney.org or browse the youtube videos and hundreds of blogs on the topic by searching with the words “equal money” and “desteni."

The Equal Money System will consist of a 2 step process, beginning first with a basic income grant (check out the basic income pilot project in Namibia for context of what a basic income grant is and the effects it has had (http://www.bignam.org/BIG_pilot.html) or check out What the FAQ is equal money at our online store- yup, another money maker: http://eqafe.com/p/what-the-faq-is-equal-money-system-volume-1).

(13) You said: “So what gives? Why, if Desteni wants to equalize the Earth economically, are they pushing a get-rich-quick scheme? “

There’s nothing ‘quick’ about self-change or economic change. This is a process that takes time and requires commitment, and it starts with a commitment to yourself. If you’re like me and have been dealing with things like stress, anxiety (which I see as symptoms of living in a sink-or-swim profit based systemof competition and survival) and/or a lack of discipline (among many other things that may cause an uncomfortable or conflictual inner experience), then you will see how with the Desteni tools, you can take control of it, and take your power back. Then you see that the commitment is nothing of a ‘giving’ of yourself, and is more like a ‘taking back’ of yourself. You also see that the commitment is a complete re-building of yourself from the ground up, so that you can build yourself to be someone you can trust and respect, someone who lives according to principles rather than experience s (a.k.a. a consideration for all versus self-interest). Then you can start actually living the principles of the Equal Money System in your own life, so that you can participate in the process of making it a living reality.

(14) You said: “Well, in classic cult doublespeak, Desteni leader Bernard Poolman claims that by making everyone rich through the Desteni I Process, Destenians will eventually use their money to buy political clout to change “the system” over to the Equal Money System. Curiously, there’s nothing about this on the Desteni I Process webpages; you have to drill into Poolman’s endless series of YouTube sermons in order to appreciate this point.”

Yes, this is how we intend to change the system from within. We have to become the politicians, the economists and the elite in order to have any say because that is who calls the shots today. We are currently in school studying politics, law, economics and psychology so that we place ourselves effectively in the system, as anyone who wants to make a real change should do. This is a personal choice each person has to make: will you be a part of the solution? You can figure this out for yourself as you learn within DIP. For example: no one forced me to go to university to get my degree, no one from Desteni is influencing me when I choose which job to take. I am making these decisions based on common sense, by looking at what I can do to place myself effectively in society. Desteni taught me how to effectively use the resources available to me in my life. I was born into a life where I have three square meals, a roof over my head and access to the internet. This is a very privileged position that most people in the world can only dream of. This is a position of responsibility to those who are struggling to survive. This is common sense.

The root of the problem is the economic system that creates the framework or context within which we exist, one which pits us against each other in a fight for survival, instead of creating an environment of support and consideration among human beings. And the root of that problem is who we have become within ourselves, as human beings. That is why we say ‘self first’, because each person has to deal with their own inner conflict and inner-deception first (for example believing you are more important than another). We created this system based on who we are, we have to change who we are in order to change the type of system we create.

(15) You said “Astoundingly, I found one video by Poolman where he makes a claim that I guarantee you won’t hear from any other huckster of an MLM scheme. He says that the Desteni I Process will make you rich—but you’ll eventually have to give up your riches once Desteni’s Equal Money System is instituted. Yes, you heard that right. This MLM scheme will make you rich, but then you have to give it back.”

Yes, absolutely. Life is not money. Money is paper. We have agreed as humanity to accept the value of money, and we have decided that it is more valuable than the environment and life. In reality it is not, obviously. For me it is worth it to give up riches if I know that it will contribute to the end of children starving and being sold into prostitution, the end of factory farming and slave labour, and of all the problems that are created and can be cured by politics and economics.

But we have to make money in this world to survive, and unfortunately, those with money have more of a voice, therefore, we need to find ways to make money in order that we may have a voice. We are only starting at a grassroots level at the moment, and we have a long way ahead of us. But we will not sway on our principles of equality, oneness and doing what’s best for all instead of only doing what’s best for those with money.  

I invite you to read my process blog where I document my use of the Desteni tools, and apply them in my daily life @ thrubreath.blogspot.com, and my equal money blog @ Kimberly-Kline.bogspot.com.